Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

The Constituent Assembly of India met in the Constitution Hall, New Delhi, at Ten of the Clock, Mr. Vice-President (Dr. H. C. Mookherjee) in the Chair.

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

The Constituent Assembly of India met in the Constitution Hall, New Delhi, at Ten of the Clock, Mr. Vice-President (Dr. H. C. Mookherjee) in the Chair.

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

The Constituent Assembly of India met in the Constitution Hall, New Delhi, at Ten of the Clock, Mr. Vice-President (Dr. H. C. Mookherjee) in the Chair.

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

DRAFT CONSTITUTION--(Contd.)

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DRAFT CONSTITUTION--(Contd.)

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DRAFT CONSTITUTION--(Contd.)

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Article 67 (Contd.)

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Article 67 (Contd.)

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

Article 67 (Contd.)

79.1

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   Before we begin the business of the Houses, I have to inform honourable Members that yesterday information was received that members of the R.S.S. would somehow secure entrance into the lobbies and galleries in order to create disturbance. Fortunately, this was prevented. May I request honourable Members to issue visitors' cards for those only who are personally known to them in order that we may proceed with our business without any interruption?

79.1

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Before we begin the business of the Houses, I have to inform honourable Members that yesterday information was received that members of the R.S.S. would somehow secure entrance into the lobbies and galleries in order to create disturbance. Fortunately, this was prevented. May I request honourable Members to issue visitors' cards for those only who are personally known to them in order that we may proceed with our business without any interruption?

79.1

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Before we begin the business of the Houses, I have to inform honourable Members that yesterday information was received that members of the R.S.S. would somehow secure entrance into the lobbies and galleries in order to create disturbance. Fortunately, this was prevented. May I request honourable Members to issue visitors' cards for those only who are personally known to them in order that we may proceed with our business without any interruption?

79.2

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     We shall now take up discussion of article 67.  The first amendment on the list is amendment No. 1411. This is disallowed as being verbal.

79.2

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     We shall now take up discussion of article 67.  The first amendment on the list is amendment No. 1411. This is disallowed as being verbal.

79.2

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     We shall now take up discussion of article 67.  The first amendment on the list is amendment No. 1411. This is disallowed as being verbal.

79.3

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     Then we have amendments Nos. 1412, 1413 first part, 1414 first part and 1415 first part. These are identical. Amendments 1415 standing in the name of Kazi Syed Karimuddin is allowed to be moved.

79.3

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Then we have amendments Nos. 1412, 1413 first part, 1414 first part and 1415 first part. These are identical. Amendments 1415 standing in the name of Kazi Syed Karimuddin is allowed to be moved.

79.3

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Then we have amendments Nos. 1412, 1413 first part, 1414 first part and 1415 first part. These are identical. Amendments 1415 standing in the name of Kazi Syed Karimuddin is allowed to be moved.

79.4

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Mr. Vice-President, Sir I move :

     "That in sub-clause (a) of clause (5) of article 67, the following words be deleted :--

     'Subject to the provisions of articles 292 and 293 of this Constitution';

      and the following words be added at the end :--

'in accordance with the system of proportional representation with multi-member constituencies by means of cumulative vote'."

79.4

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Mr. Vice-President, Sir I move :

     "That in sub-clause (a) of clause (5) of article 67, the following words be deleted :--

     'Subject to the provisions of articles 292 and 293 of this Constitution';

      and the following words be added at the end :--

'in accordance with the system of proportional representation with multi-member constituencies by means of cumulative vote'."

79.4

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Mr. Vice-President, Sir I move :

     "That in sub-clause (a) of clause (5) of article 67, the following words be deleted :--

     'Subject to the provisions of articles 292 and 293 of this Constitution';

      and the following words be added at the end :--

'in accordance with the system of proportional representation with multi-member constituencies by means of cumulative vote'."

79.5

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sir, the present electoral system, of single member constituency according to me, is very defective. The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority that succeeds in carrying elections. To break off that point is to arrest danger. The common system of representation perpetuates the danger and the only remedy is proportional representation. That system is also profoundly democratic for it increases the influence of thousands of those who would have no voice in the Government and it brings men more near an equality by so contriving that no vote shall be wasted and that every voter shall contribute to bring into Parliament a member of his own choice and opinion. Sir, another objection to the present electoral system is that the system does not even guarantee the rule of majority. We have innumerable instances of this type in England and America. The Conservative majority of 1924 was unreal because it polled 48 per cent of votes and it was supposed to be the majority party in the country. Then in America, Presidents Hayes and Harrison became Presidents in 1876 and 1888 when they secured votes less than the votes secured by their adversaries. In so far as this is concerned, the present electoral system is really perverse. This system may even deprive the minorities of their just share of representation as to render them important. An instance of this has happened in the Irish election. The most ardent defenders of the system would hardly deny the right of the minority to some representation and it is worthy if note that one of the reasons advanced by Gladstone was that such a system tended to secure representation for minorities. This is found to be wrong in Ireland; yet as prophesied in the debates of 1885, the minorities in the South and West of Ireland have since that date been permanently disfranchised. In the eight Parliaments of 1885 to 1911 they had been without representation. Therefore my submission is that the present system as it stands does not guarantee a majority rule as people commonly suppose and does not guarantee a representation to minorities, not necessarily religious, even the political minorities. Today we are faced with an electoral system in which there is no guarantee except the reservation of seats that has been embodied in articles 292 and 293. By my amendment I plead that if proportional representation is guaranteed the reservation of seats even on religious grounds must go. It has been accepted on all hands that communalism must be uprooted from the soil of this country. We have has had evil effects of it and the Dominion Parliament is already committed to this stand because a Resolution has been already passed that no communal party may be allowed to function in the country. Therefore separatism, communalism and isolationism must disappear from the body politics of India but we cannot ignore the existing conditions in the country. We find that there is a movement for the establishment of a Hindu Raj. We find that there is an R.S.S. organisation also in the country. In view of this we have to proceed cautiously and gradually, and therefore we have to find out a way that communalism must go and the minorities must be represented in the legislatures.

79.5

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sir, the present electoral system, of single member constituency according to me, is very defective. The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority that succeeds in carrying elections. To break off that point is to arrest danger. The common system of representation perpetuates the danger and the only remedy is proportional representation. That system is also profoundly democratic for it increases the influence of thousands of those who would have no voice in the Government and it brings men more near an equality by so contriving that no vote shall be wasted and that every voter shall contribute to bring into Parliament a member of his own choice and opinion. Sir, another objection to the present electoral system is that the system does not even guarantee the rule of majority. We have innumerable instances of this type in England and America. The Conservative majority of 1924 was unreal because it polled 48 per cent of votes and it was supposed to be the majority party in the country. Then in America, Presidents Hayes and Harrison became Presidents in 1876 and 1888 when they secured votes less than the votes secured by their adversaries. In so far as this is concerned, the present electoral system is really perverse. This system may even deprive the minorities of their just share of representation as to render them important. An instance of this has happened in the Irish election. The most ardent defenders of the system would hardly deny the right of the minority to some representation and it is worthy if note that one of the reasons advanced by Gladstone was that such a system tended to secure representation for minorities. This is found to be wrong in Ireland; yet as prophesied in the debates of 1885, the minorities in the South and West of Ireland have since that date been permanently disfranchised. In the eight Parliaments of 1885 to 1911 they had been without representation. Therefore my submission is that the present system as it stands does not guarantee a majority rule as people commonly suppose and does not guarantee a representation to minorities, not necessarily religious, even the political minorities. Today we are faced with an electoral system in which there is no guarantee except the reservation of seats that has been embodied in articles 292 and 293. By my amendment I plead that if proportional representation is guaranteed the reservation of seats even on religious grounds must go. It has been accepted on all hands that communalism must be uprooted from the soil of this country. We have has had evil effects of it and the Dominion Parliament is already committed to this stand because a Resolution has been already passed that no communal party may be allowed to function in the country. Therefore separatism, communalism and isolationism must disappear from the body politics of India but we cannot ignore the existing conditions in the country. We find that there is a movement for the establishment of a Hindu Raj. We find that there is an R.S.S. organisation also in the country. In view of this we have to proceed cautiously and gradually, and therefore we have to find out a way that communalism must go and the minorities must be represented in the legislatures.

79.5

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sir, the present electoral system, of single member constituency according to me, is very defective. The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority that succeeds in carrying elections. To break off that point is to arrest danger. The common system of representation perpetuates the danger and the only remedy is proportional representation. That system is also profoundly democratic for it increases the influence of thousands of those who would have no voice in the Government and it brings men more near an equality by so contriving that no vote shall be wasted and that every voter shall contribute to bring into Parliament a member of his own choice and opinion. Sir, another objection to the present electoral system is that the system does not even guarantee the rule of majority. We have innumerable instances of this type in England and America. The Conservative majority of 1924 was unreal because it polled 48 per cent of votes and it was supposed to be the majority party in the country. Then in America, Presidents Hayes and Harrison became Presidents in 1876 and 1888 when they secured votes less than the votes secured by their adversaries. In so far as this is concerned, the present electoral system is really perverse. This system may even deprive the minorities of their just share of representation as to render them important. An instance of this has happened in the Irish election. The most ardent defenders of the system would hardly deny the right of the minority to some representation and it is worthy if note that one of the reasons advanced by Gladstone was that such a system tended to secure representation for minorities. This is found to be wrong in Ireland; yet as prophesied in the debates of 1885, the minorities in the South and West of Ireland have since that date been permanently disfranchised. In the eight Parliaments of 1885 to 1911 they had been without representation. Therefore my submission is that the present system as it stands does not guarantee a majority rule as people commonly suppose and does not guarantee a representation to minorities, not necessarily religious, even the political minorities. Today we are faced with an electoral system in which there is no guarantee except the reservation of seats that has been embodied in articles 292 and 293. By my amendment I plead that if proportional representation is guaranteed the reservation of seats even on religious grounds must go. It has been accepted on all hands that communalism must be uprooted from the soil of this country. We have has had evil effects of it and the Dominion Parliament is already committed to this stand because a Resolution has been already passed that no communal party may be allowed to function in the country. Therefore separatism, communalism and isolationism must disappear from the body politics of India but we cannot ignore the existing conditions in the country. We find that there is a movement for the establishment of a Hindu Raj. We find that there is an R.S.S. organisation also in the country. In view of this we have to proceed cautiously and gradually, and therefore we have to find out a way that communalism must go and the minorities must be represented in the legislatures.

79.6

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     Now there are two methods before us. One is the reservation of seats as has been provided in the Constitution, i.e., under article 292. The other is proportional representation. There are very serious defects about the provision of reservation of seats because it is based on religious grounds. It defeats the very objects for which it is adopted because the chosen representatives of the community for which reservation is given cannot be secured. Then as I had already said in the general discussions, that even a false convert for the purpose of election will defeat a choice representative and the minorities will be engaging lawyers who would argue the cases against their own clients; but it is wrong to say that it is communal because it is the majority that would elect the representatives of the minorities mainly and not the minority communities.

79.6

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Now there are two methods before us. One is the reservation of seats as has been provided in the Constitution, i.e., under article 292. The other is proportional representation. There are very serious defects about the provision of reservation of seats because it is based on religious grounds. It defeats the very objects for which it is adopted because the chosen representatives of the community for which reservation is given cannot be secured. Then as I had already said in the general discussions, that even a false convert for the purpose of election will defeat a choice representative and the minorities will be engaging lawyers who would argue the cases against their own clients; but it is wrong to say that it is communal because it is the majority that would elect the representatives of the minorities mainly and not the minority communities.

79.6

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Now there are two methods before us. One is the reservation of seats as has been provided in the Constitution, i.e., under article 292. The other is proportional representation. There are very serious defects about the provision of reservation of seats because it is based on religious grounds. It defeats the very objects for which it is adopted because the chosen representatives of the community for which reservation is given cannot be secured. Then as I had already said in the general discussions, that even a false convert for the purpose of election will defeat a choice representative and the minorities will be engaging lawyers who would argue the cases against their own clients; but it is wrong to say that it is communal because it is the majority that would elect the representatives of the minorities mainly and not the minority communities.

79.7

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     The system which I regard as the best is the system of proportional representation. It is not based on religious grounds and it applies to all minorities, political, religious or communal. There are three objections to this system, which are generally argued and debated. The first is that there would be very large constituencies and it would be very difficult to manage the voters. The second objection is the instability of the Government and the third is the establishment of Coalition Governments. Now in regard to the first objection, I think it is not tenable at all. In a large constituency if the party system works, then there is no question of the candidate coming in contact with the voters. The party machinery would work successfully. It is wrong to suppose that there will be instability of Government because the majority is bound to secure majority in the House and the majority is bound to form a Government. Then about the Coalition Government, in my opinion, where there is heterogeneous population, it is very necessary that we should have Coalition Governments. It will not be a bad thing that various representatives elements should have to be consulted in forming a Ministry. The country is passing thorough transition and Communism is knocking at our door. It is very necessary that the opposition whether it is communal or it is a political will have to be accommodated. We are about to transfer the Government of this country from the middle classes to those whom I might describe as the wage-earning class. This is an immense change which is realised by very few people in the country. The Congressmen are of opinion that they are bound to sweep the polls and therefore they support the Draft Constitution which establishes a majority rule, making no effective provisions for the benefit of either communal or political minorities in the country. They are wrong and they would be found to be wrong. No organization in the world has reconciled the conflicting claims of labour and capital, tenant and landlord and it is impossible to keep them under one banner. Look around us, communism is spreading with alarming speed and once it catches the imagination of the working classes, its potentiality is very grave. Suppose the working classes take a fancy for socialist dogmas or communist dogmas, they being in majority, are bound to capture power in absence of any provision to protect political or communal minorities. In order to provide against such contingencies the system of proportional representation is the only method. Secondly without any sacrifice of democratic principles, it can afford protection to communal minorities also. Without any spirit of communalism representatives of political and communal minorities can be elected. In the absence of this, the country can be plunged into communism.

79.7

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     The system which I regard as the best is the system of proportional representation. It is not based on religious grounds and it applies to all minorities, political, religious or communal. There are three objections to this system, which are generally argued and debated. The first is that there would be very large constituencies and it would be very difficult to manage the voters. The second objection is the instability of the Government and the third is the establishment of Coalition Governments. Now in regard to the first objection, I think it is not tenable at all. In a large constituency if the party system works, then there is no question of the candidate coming in contact with the voters. The party machinery would work successfully. It is wrong to suppose that there will be instability of Government because the majority is bound to secure majority in the House and the majority is bound to form a Government. Then about the Coalition Government, in my opinion, where there is heterogeneous population, it is very necessary that we should have Coalition Governments. It will not be a bad thing that various representatives elements should have to be consulted in forming a Ministry. The country is passing thorough transition and Communism is knocking at our door. It is very necessary that the opposition whether it is communal or it is a political will have to be accommodated. We are about to transfer the Government of this country from the middle classes to those whom I might describe as the wage-earning class. This is an immense change which is realised by very few people in the country. The Congressmen are of opinion that they are bound to sweep the polls and therefore they support the Draft Constitution which establishes a majority rule, making no effective provisions for the benefit of either communal or political minorities in the country. They are wrong and they would be found to be wrong. No organization in the world has reconciled the conflicting claims of labour and capital, tenant and landlord and it is impossible to keep them under one banner. Look around us, communism is spreading with alarming speed and once it catches the imagination of the working classes, its potentiality is very grave. Suppose the working classes take a fancy for socialist dogmas or communist dogmas, they being in majority, are bound to capture power in absence of any provision to protect political or communal minorities. In order to provide against such contingencies the system of proportional representation is the only method. Secondly without any sacrifice of democratic principles, it can afford protection to communal minorities also. Without any spirit of communalism representatives of political and communal minorities can be elected. In the absence of this, the country can be plunged into communism.

79.7

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     The system which I regard as the best is the system of proportional representation. It is not based on religious grounds and it applies to all minorities, political, religious or communal. There are three objections to this system, which are generally argued and debated. The first is that there would be very large constituencies and it would be very difficult to manage the voters. The second objection is the instability of the Government and the third is the establishment of Coalition Governments. Now in regard to the first objection, I think it is not tenable at all. In a large constituency if the party system works, then there is no question of the candidate coming in contact with the voters. The party machinery would work successfully. It is wrong to suppose that there will be instability of Government because the majority is bound to secure majority in the House and the majority is bound to form a Government. Then about the Coalition Government, in my opinion, where there is heterogeneous population, it is very necessary that we should have Coalition Governments. It will not be a bad thing that various representatives elements should have to be consulted in forming a Ministry. The country is passing thorough transition and Communism is knocking at our door. It is very necessary that the opposition whether it is communal or it is a political will have to be accommodated. We are about to transfer the Government of this country from the middle classes to those whom I might describe as the wage-earning class. This is an immense change which is realised by very few people in the country. The Congressmen are of opinion that they are bound to sweep the polls and therefore they support the Draft Constitution which establishes a majority rule, making no effective provisions for the benefit of either communal or political minorities in the country. They are wrong and they would be found to be wrong. No organization in the world has reconciled the conflicting claims of labour and capital, tenant and landlord and it is impossible to keep them under one banner. Look around us, communism is spreading with alarming speed and once it catches the imagination of the working classes, its potentiality is very grave. Suppose the working classes take a fancy for socialist dogmas or communist dogmas, they being in majority, are bound to capture power in absence of any provision to protect political or communal minorities. In order to provide against such contingencies the system of proportional representation is the only method. Secondly without any sacrifice of democratic principles, it can afford protection to communal minorities also. Without any spirit of communalism representatives of political and communal minorities can be elected. In the absence of this, the country can be plunged into communism.

79.8

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    Sir, may I request the honourable Member to read slowly?

79.8

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Sir, may I request the honourable Member to read slowly?

79.8

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Sir, may I request the honourable Member to read slowly?

79.9

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

  I am not reading. I am only referring to my notes. You can come here and see it for yourself.

79.9

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

  I am not reading. I am only referring to my notes. You can come here and see it for yourself.

79.9

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

  I am not reading. I am only referring to my notes. You can come here and see it for yourself.

79.10

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Mr. Karimuddin, I suggest you speak more slowly.

79.10

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Mr. Karimuddin, I suggest you speak more slowly.

79.10

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Mr. Karimuddin, I suggest you speak more slowly.

79.11

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Sir, in the general election and according to the present electoral system if the pendulum swings in favour of communism, all schemes of development will be lost and if it swings in favour of communalism, the secular nature of the State will be lost; and if the minorities are neglected, whether they are political, or communal, and crushed and kept out of Parliamentary activities, it will be a good fodder for the communists and they will sit in their lap. Therefore it is part of wisdom to persuade the opposition to take of the ways of constitutionalism and the only way to do it is the introduction of the system of proportional representation. I prophesy that if this is note done, it will lead to chaos. That does not mean that I oppose the continuance of the present regime. I want the Congress to live longer because they have given peace, tranquility and a secular State to all the communities in India but this cannot be guaranteed unless the system of proportional representation is introduced.

79.11

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Sir, in the general election and according to the present electoral system if the pendulum swings in favour of communism, all schemes of development will be lost and if it swings in favour of communalism, the secular nature of the State will be lost; and if the minorities are neglected, whether they are political, or communal, and crushed and kept out of Parliamentary activities, it will be a good fodder for the communists and they will sit in their lap. Therefore it is part of wisdom to persuade the opposition to take of the ways of constitutionalism and the only way to do it is the introduction of the system of proportional representation. I prophesy that if this is note done, it will lead to chaos. That does not mean that I oppose the continuance of the present regime. I want the Congress to live longer because they have given peace, tranquility and a secular State to all the communities in India but this cannot be guaranteed unless the system of proportional representation is introduced.

79.11

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Sir, in the general election and according to the present electoral system if the pendulum swings in favour of communism, all schemes of development will be lost and if it swings in favour of communalism, the secular nature of the State will be lost; and if the minorities are neglected, whether they are political, or communal, and crushed and kept out of Parliamentary activities, it will be a good fodder for the communists and they will sit in their lap. Therefore it is part of wisdom to persuade the opposition to take of the ways of constitutionalism and the only way to do it is the introduction of the system of proportional representation. I prophesy that if this is note done, it will lead to chaos. That does not mean that I oppose the continuance of the present regime. I want the Congress to live longer because they have given peace, tranquility and a secular State to all the communities in India but this cannot be guaranteed unless the system of proportional representation is introduced.

79.12

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Now, Sir, the first part of my amendment says that there should be abolition of the provision of reservation of seats in case the proportional representation is granted; otherwise not. Sir, in fact when I spoke about the abolition of reservation of seats and adoption of proportional representation, there was an incorrect idea that I was pleading for the abolition of reservation of seats unconditionally. I had stated and I state even today that if proportional representation is introduced, there should be no provision regarding the reservation of seats. Once you accept that there are minorities and also that some recognition has to be given to them, then my submission is that the House should be pleased to introduce the system of proportional representation. 

79.12

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Now, Sir, the first part of my amendment says that there should be abolition of the provision of reservation of seats in case the proportional representation is granted; otherwise not. Sir, in fact when I spoke about the abolition of reservation of seats and adoption of proportional representation, there was an incorrect idea that I was pleading for the abolition of reservation of seats unconditionally. I had stated and I state even today that if proportional representation is introduced, there should be no provision regarding the reservation of seats. Once you accept that there are minorities and also that some recognition has to be given to them, then my submission is that the House should be pleased to introduce the system of proportional representation. 

79.12

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Now, Sir, the first part of my amendment says that there should be abolition of the provision of reservation of seats in case the proportional representation is granted; otherwise not. Sir, in fact when I spoke about the abolition of reservation of seats and adoption of proportional representation, there was an incorrect idea that I was pleading for the abolition of reservation of seats unconditionally. I had stated and I state even today that if proportional representation is introduced, there should be no provision regarding the reservation of seats. Once you accept that there are minorities and also that some recognition has to be given to them, then my submission is that the House should be pleased to introduce the system of proportional representation. 

79.13

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

      : Then amendment No. 1412 which stands in the name of Mr. Mohd. Tahir. Do you want it to be put to vote Mr. Tahir?

79.13

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

      : Then amendment No. 1412 which stands in the name of Mr. Mohd. Tahir. Do you want it to be put to vote Mr. Tahir?

79.13

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

      : Then amendment No. 1412 which stands in the name of Mr. Mohd. Tahir. Do you want it to be put to vote Mr. Tahir?

79.14

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    No, I do not want to move it.

79.14

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    No, I do not want to move it.

79.14

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    No, I do not want to move it.

79.15

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Well in that case the amendments to that amendment, that are Nos. 19 and 20, standing in the name of Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava fall through. But do you want to move them, Mr. Bhargava? I find that they relate to not only amendment No. 1412, but to other amendments also.

79.15

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Well in that case the amendments to that amendment, that are Nos. 19 and 20, standing in the name of Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava fall through. But do you want to move them, Mr. Bhargava? I find that they relate to not only amendment No. 1412, but to other amendments also.

79.15

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Well in that case the amendments to that amendment, that are Nos. 19 and 20, standing in the name of Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava fall through. But do you want to move them, Mr. Bhargava? I find that they relate to not only amendment No. 1412, but to other amendments also.

79.16

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

  Sir, though I do not want to move those amendments, with your permission, I would like to make a statement about them.

79.16

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

  Sir, though I do not want to move those amendments, with your permission, I would like to make a statement about them.

79.16

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

  Sir, though I do not want to move those amendments, with your permission, I would like to make a statement about them.

79.17

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    You can do so in the course of the general discussion. I shall bear that in mind. So I score them out. Then we come to amendment No. 1413, standing in the name of Pandit Lakshmi Kanta Maitra.

79.17

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    You can do so in the course of the general discussion. I shall bear that in mind. So I score them out. Then we come to amendment No. 1413, standing in the name of Pandit Lakshmi Kanta Maitra.

79.17

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    You can do so in the course of the general discussion. I shall bear that in mind. So I score them out. Then we come to amendment No. 1413, standing in the name of Pandit Lakshmi Kanta Maitra.

79.18

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     I am not moving it Sir.

(Amendment No. 1414, first part, was not moved).

79.18

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     I am not moving it Sir.

(Amendment No. 1414, first part, was not moved).

79.18

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     I am not moving it Sir.

(Amendment No. 1414, first part, was not moved).

79.19

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

  Then we come to the second part of No. 1414, second part of 1415 and No. 1421. These are of similar import and may, therefore, be considered together. Amendment No. 1415 may be moved. It stands in the name of Kazi Syed Karimuddin; I am referring to the second part of No. 1415.

79.19

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

  Then we come to the second part of No. 1414, second part of 1415 and No. 1421. These are of similar import and may, therefore, be considered together. Amendment No. 1415 may be moved. It stands in the name of Kazi Syed Karimuddin; I am referring to the second part of No. 1415.

79.19

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

  Then we come to the second part of No. 1414, second part of 1415 and No. 1421. These are of similar import and may, therefore, be considered together. Amendment No. 1415 may be moved. It stands in the name of Kazi Syed Karimuddin; I am referring to the second part of No. 1415.

79.20

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Sir, I have moved both parts of No. 1415.

79.20

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    Sir, I have moved both parts of No. 1415.

79.20

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    Sir, I have moved both parts of No. 1415.

79.21

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  All right. I am sorry I did not follow. Then No. 1414 falls through, as Mr. Lari is absent. Then we come to amendment No. 1416 and amendment No. 1417, amendment No. 1416 stands in the name of Prof. K. T. Shah.

79.21

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  All right. I am sorry I did not follow. Then No. 1414 falls through, as Mr. Lari is absent. Then we come to amendment No. 1416 and amendment No. 1417, amendment No. 1416 stands in the name of Prof. K. T. Shah.

79.21

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  All right. I am sorry I did not follow. Then No. 1414 falls through, as Mr. Lari is absent. Then we come to amendment No. 1416 and amendment No. 1417, amendment No. 1416 stands in the name of Prof. K. T. Shah.

79.22

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   Mr. Vice-President, Sir, I beg to move:

   "That in sub-clause (a) of clause (5) of article 67, for the words 'not more than five hundred representatives of the people of the territories of the States directly chosen by the voters', the words 'such members as shall, in the aggregate, secure one representative for every 500,000 of the population in all the constituent parts of the Union, whether States or territories directly administered by the Centre. All members of the People's House shall be chosen directly by the votes of adult citizens. The votes shall be cast in a secret ballot and voting shall be on the basis of Proportional Representatives with Single Transferable Vote' be substituted."

79.22

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   Mr. Vice-President, Sir, I beg to move:

   "That in sub-clause (a) of clause (5) of article 67, for the words 'not more than five hundred representatives of the people of the territories of the States directly chosen by the voters', the words 'such members as shall, in the aggregate, secure one representative for every 500,000 of the population in all the constituent parts of the Union, whether States or territories directly administered by the Centre. All members of the People's House shall be chosen directly by the votes of adult citizens. The votes shall be cast in a secret ballot and voting shall be on the basis of Proportional Representatives with Single Transferable Vote' be substituted."

79.22

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   Mr. Vice-President, Sir, I beg to move:

   "That in sub-clause (a) of clause (5) of article 67, for the words 'not more than five hundred representatives of the people of the territories of the States directly chosen by the voters', the words 'such members as shall, in the aggregate, secure one representative for every 500,000 of the population in all the constituent parts of the Union, whether States or territories directly administered by the Centre. All members of the People's House shall be chosen directly by the votes of adult citizens. The votes shall be cast in a secret ballot and voting shall be on the basis of Proportional Representatives with Single Transferable Vote' be substituted."

79.23

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     Sir, by this amendment, I seek to make three changes.

79.23

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     Sir, by this amendment, I seek to make three changes.

79.23

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     Sir, by this amendment, I seek to make three changes.

79.24

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     The first is to avoid a maximum number of representatives being fixed by the constitution for the People's House of Representatives. It is, I think, not in accord with the correct principle of popular representation that it must be the people's voice which must be the final authority in the governance of a country calling itself a democracy. Under such a principle the Constitution should not fix permanently the maximum number of representatives for the popular chamber.

79.24

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     The first is to avoid a maximum number of representatives being fixed by the constitution for the People's House of Representatives. It is, I think, not in accord with the correct principle of popular representation that it must be the people's voice which must be the final authority in the governance of a country calling itself a democracy. Under such a principle the Constitution should not fix permanently the maximum number of representatives for the popular chamber.

79.24

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     The first is to avoid a maximum number of representatives being fixed by the constitution for the People's House of Representatives. It is, I think, not in accord with the correct principle of popular representation that it must be the people's voice which must be the final authority in the governance of a country calling itself a democracy. Under such a principle the Constitution should not fix permanently the maximum number of representatives for the popular chamber.

79.25

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     We have observed the tendency, during the last three or four census, towards a steady increase of the population of our country at every decennium. The last census shows an increase of as much as 15 per cent in ten years. If, now, you fix the absolute maximum number, it would happen that you might change the number of persons represented by each representatives in an undesirable direction. That is to say, the representative character of each representative would become lesser and lesser, as he would be representing larger and larger numbers. 

79.25

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     We have observed the tendency, during the last three or four census, towards a steady increase of the population of our country at every decennium. The last census shows an increase of as much as 15 per cent in ten years. If, now, you fix the absolute maximum number, it would happen that you might change the number of persons represented by each representatives in an undesirable direction. That is to say, the representative character of each representative would become lesser and lesser, as he would be representing larger and larger numbers. 

79.25

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     We have observed the tendency, during the last three or four census, towards a steady increase of the population of our country at every decennium. The last census shows an increase of as much as 15 per cent in ten years. If, now, you fix the absolute maximum number, it would happen that you might change the number of persons represented by each representatives in an undesirable direction. That is to say, the representative character of each representative would become lesser and lesser, as he would be representing larger and larger numbers. 

79.26

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     I feel, Sir, that if you make representation of very large numbers of voters to be concentrated on a single member, so to say, you may not have a correct verdict of the people on a multiplicity of issues that are usually placed before the electorate at a general election. 

79.26

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     I feel, Sir, that if you make representation of very large numbers of voters to be concentrated on a single member, so to say, you may not have a correct verdict of the people on a multiplicity of issues that are usually placed before the electorate at a general election. 

79.26

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     I feel, Sir, that if you make representation of very large numbers of voters to be concentrated on a single member, so to say, you may not have a correct verdict of the people on a multiplicity of issues that are usually placed before the electorate at a general election. 

79.27

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     A general election--and that is presumably contemplated here--is always an occasion when a number of issues come before the voters, in which the people, that is, the voters are likely to be confused, because of the varying and often conflicting, pulls of the different issues on which they are asked to give each a single vote. This being the unavoidable case at each such election, I think it may be as well to fix no maximum number of representatives for the representation of the people. Instead we should allow the number to shape itself according to the varying population. . 

79.27

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     A general election--and that is presumably contemplated here--is always an occasion when a number of issues come before the voters, in which the people, that is, the voters are likely to be confused, because of the varying and often conflicting, pulls of the different issues on which they are asked to give each a single vote. This being the unavoidable case at each such election, I think it may be as well to fix no maximum number of representatives for the representation of the people. Instead we should allow the number to shape itself according to the varying population. . 

79.27

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     A general election--and that is presumably contemplated here--is always an occasion when a number of issues come before the voters, in which the people, that is, the voters are likely to be confused, because of the varying and often conflicting, pulls of the different issues on which they are asked to give each a single vote. This being the unavoidable case at each such election, I think it may be as well to fix no maximum number of representatives for the representation of the people. Instead we should allow the number to shape itself according to the varying population. . 

79.28

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     It is true that is your census is a decennial affair, it may not give you the correct guide for every election in the interval between two censuses assuming that elections come at least once in five years, if not more frequently. Even so, since we have agreed to take the last preceding census as the basis, and that census is now more than eight years old--apart altogether form the originally doubtful character of that census taken during the war,--the next general election may itself be not correctly representing all people, especially if you fix a maximum number of representatives, to start with. In other later general elections, the five-year interval would not make so great a variation. That variation may be about 5 per cent or 6 percent or 71/2 per cent. This only means that representatives would number so many more on that amount of change, it may not be impossible for a proper electoral machinery to cope with.

79.28

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     It is true that is your census is a decennial affair, it may not give you the correct guide for every election in the interval between two censuses assuming that elections come at least once in five years, if not more frequently. Even so, since we have agreed to take the last preceding census as the basis, and that census is now more than eight years old--apart altogether form the originally doubtful character of that census taken during the war,--the next general election may itself be not correctly representing all people, especially if you fix a maximum number of representatives, to start with. In other later general elections, the five-year interval would not make so great a variation. That variation may be about 5 per cent or 6 percent or 71/2 per cent. This only means that representatives would number so many more on that amount of change, it may not be impossible for a proper electoral machinery to cope with.

79.28

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     It is true that is your census is a decennial affair, it may not give you the correct guide for every election in the interval between two censuses assuming that elections come at least once in five years, if not more frequently. Even so, since we have agreed to take the last preceding census as the basis, and that census is now more than eight years old--apart altogether form the originally doubtful character of that census taken during the war,--the next general election may itself be not correctly representing all people, especially if you fix a maximum number of representatives, to start with. In other later general elections, the five-year interval would not make so great a variation. That variation may be about 5 per cent or 6 percent or 71/2 per cent. This only means that representatives would number so many more on that amount of change, it may not be impossible for a proper electoral machinery to cope with.

79.29

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     Taking that to be the case, I would suggest that a limit of 500,000 population be fixed as being entitled to be represented. This would be much more likely to reflect the real opinion of the people, even on a number of issues, than if you fix the total number of representatives at 500 as is contemplated under this clause. The number would, no doubt, increase, if the population tends to increase. It is, therefore, possible that the maximum for the coming two decades may reach the figure of, say 600, or even more. Even with that number, I do not think that, for a country of the size and population of the Union of India, it is too large a number of representatives.

79.29

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     Taking that to be the case, I would suggest that a limit of 500,000 population be fixed as being entitled to be represented. This would be much more likely to reflect the real opinion of the people, even on a number of issues, than if you fix the total number of representatives at 500 as is contemplated under this clause. The number would, no doubt, increase, if the population tends to increase. It is, therefore, possible that the maximum for the coming two decades may reach the figure of, say 600, or even more. Even with that number, I do not think that, for a country of the size and population of the Union of India, it is too large a number of representatives.

79.29

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     Taking that to be the case, I would suggest that a limit of 500,000 population be fixed as being entitled to be represented. This would be much more likely to reflect the real opinion of the people, even on a number of issues, than if you fix the total number of representatives at 500 as is contemplated under this clause. The number would, no doubt, increase, if the population tends to increase. It is, therefore, possible that the maximum for the coming two decades may reach the figure of, say 600, or even more. Even with that number, I do not think that, for a country of the size and population of the Union of India, it is too large a number of representatives.

79.30

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     Anybody interested primarily in expediting things, and in governing the country according to a few people's will naturally not like large numbers of deliberation, and the larger the time taken in passing laws or resolutions, representatives. The larger the number the greater, of course, is the chance, of deliberation, and the larger the time taken in passing laws or resolutions. The scrutiny of government's executive actions would also be from a greater variety of angles by interpellations and the like. Those, therefore, in favour of expediting public business may not quite like this suggestion.

79.30

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Anybody interested primarily in expediting things, and in governing the country according to a few people's will naturally not like large numbers of deliberation, and the larger the time taken in passing laws or resolutions, representatives. The larger the number the greater, of course, is the chance, of deliberation, and the larger the time taken in passing laws or resolutions. The scrutiny of government's executive actions would also be from a greater variety of angles by interpellations and the like. Those, therefore, in favour of expediting public business may not quite like this suggestion.

79.30

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Anybody interested primarily in expediting things, and in governing the country according to a few people's will naturally not like large numbers of deliberation, and the larger the time taken in passing laws or resolutions, representatives. The larger the number the greater, of course, is the chance, of deliberation, and the larger the time taken in passing laws or resolutions. The scrutiny of government's executive actions would also be from a greater variety of angles by interpellations and the like. Those, therefore, in favour of expediting public business may not quite like this suggestion.

79.31

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     Those, on the other hand, who think more of the people and their wishes, would not, and should not, find in this, in my opinion, a hindrance or handicap to good government. The possibility of varying or increasing number of representatives should not, by itself, be regarded as an objection. In fact, even in the clause as it stands, the very idea that you think it necessary to fix the maximum number of representatives indicates that, even in this scheme, there is a possibility of variation in number; and as such, my amendment is, by itself, not to be condemned.

79.31

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     Those, on the other hand, who think more of the people and their wishes, would not, and should not, find in this, in my opinion, a hindrance or handicap to good government. The possibility of varying or increasing number of representatives should not, by itself, be regarded as an objection. In fact, even in the clause as it stands, the very idea that you think it necessary to fix the maximum number of representatives indicates that, even in this scheme, there is a possibility of variation in number; and as such, my amendment is, by itself, not to be condemned.

79.31

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     Those, on the other hand, who think more of the people and their wishes, would not, and should not, find in this, in my opinion, a hindrance or handicap to good government. The possibility of varying or increasing number of representatives should not, by itself, be regarded as an objection. In fact, even in the clause as it stands, the very idea that you think it necessary to fix the maximum number of representatives indicates that, even in this scheme, there is a possibility of variation in number; and as such, my amendment is, by itself, not to be condemned.

79.32

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     My second point is in relation to the scheme of voting. There are, in later clauses, some other amendments which I have tabled, and which when they come up, I will discuss. I will, therefore, not take up the time of the House at this moment.

79.32

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     My second point is in relation to the scheme of voting. There are, in later clauses, some other amendments which I have tabled, and which when they come up, I will discuss. I will, therefore, not take up the time of the House at this moment.

79.32

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     My second point is in relation to the scheme of voting. There are, in later clauses, some other amendments which I have tabled, and which when they come up, I will discuss. I will, therefore, not take up the time of the House at this moment.

79.33

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     As regards the scheme of voting, I only insist that voting should be by secret ballot, by adult citizens; and that it should be by means of a scheme of Proportional Representatives under the device of the single transferable vote. I do not propose to descant at length, upon the theoretical grounds in favour of Proportional Representation or against it, as the previous speaker has placed a fairly exhaustive case before you. I would only like to add, lest I should be misunderstood, that the principle of Proportional Representation is not intended so much to perpetuate communal minorities, as to reflect the various shades of political opinion which after all, should be reflected in your Legislature, if you desire to be really a demarcatic government. The French system for instance, strictly speaking, is not based on Proportional Representation; and yet, different shades of political opinion are reflected in the French Assembly. Even so French Governments in the third Republic had an average life, it is said, of perhaps not more than eleven months. On that count, however, the principle is not necessarily to be condemned, as the public opinion of all shades gets a chance of expression and there is in it, if not greater stability, at least greater reflection of popular will than would be the case in a system of absolute vote that is apparently contemplated here.

79.33

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     As regards the scheme of voting, I only insist that voting should be by secret ballot, by adult citizens; and that it should be by means of a scheme of Proportional Representatives under the device of the single transferable vote. I do not propose to descant at length, upon the theoretical grounds in favour of Proportional Representation or against it, as the previous speaker has placed a fairly exhaustive case before you. I would only like to add, lest I should be misunderstood, that the principle of Proportional Representation is not intended so much to perpetuate communal minorities, as to reflect the various shades of political opinion which after all, should be reflected in your Legislature, if you desire to be really a demarcatic government. The French system for instance, strictly speaking, is not based on Proportional Representation; and yet, different shades of political opinion are reflected in the French Assembly. Even so French Governments in the third Republic had an average life, it is said, of perhaps not more than eleven months. On that count, however, the principle is not necessarily to be condemned, as the public opinion of all shades gets a chance of expression and there is in it, if not greater stability, at least greater reflection of popular will than would be the case in a system of absolute vote that is apparently contemplated here.

79.33

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     As regards the scheme of voting, I only insist that voting should be by secret ballot, by adult citizens; and that it should be by means of a scheme of Proportional Representatives under the device of the single transferable vote. I do not propose to descant at length, upon the theoretical grounds in favour of Proportional Representation or against it, as the previous speaker has placed a fairly exhaustive case before you. I would only like to add, lest I should be misunderstood, that the principle of Proportional Representation is not intended so much to perpetuate communal minorities, as to reflect the various shades of political opinion which after all, should be reflected in your Legislature, if you desire to be really a demarcatic government. The French system for instance, strictly speaking, is not based on Proportional Representation; and yet, different shades of political opinion are reflected in the French Assembly. Even so French Governments in the third Republic had an average life, it is said, of perhaps not more than eleven months. On that count, however, the principle is not necessarily to be condemned, as the public opinion of all shades gets a chance of expression and there is in it, if not greater stability, at least greater reflection of popular will than would be the case in a system of absolute vote that is apparently contemplated here.

79.34

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     The possibility of securing varying shades of political opinion will give a chance, not only for minorities to be only reflected in the Legislature of the country, but also for them to assert themselves, and to convert themselves into a majority, which, perhaps, those who might confuse Proportional Representation as synonymous with the possibility of communal representation would do well to consider. On these grounds, Sir, I commend this motion to the House.

79.34

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     The possibility of securing varying shades of political opinion will give a chance, not only for minorities to be only reflected in the Legislature of the country, but also for them to assert themselves, and to convert themselves into a majority, which, perhaps, those who might confuse Proportional Representation as synonymous with the possibility of communal representation would do well to consider. On these grounds, Sir, I commend this motion to the House.

79.34

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     The possibility of securing varying shades of political opinion will give a chance, not only for minorities to be only reflected in the Legislature of the country, but also for them to assert themselves, and to convert themselves into a majority, which, perhaps, those who might confuse Proportional Representation as synonymous with the possibility of communal representation would do well to consider. On these grounds, Sir, I commend this motion to the House.

79.35

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    Mr. Vice-President, I move, Sir :

     "That in sub-clause (a) of clause (5) of article 67, for the words 'representatives of the people of the territories of the States directly chosen by the voters', the words 'members directly elected by the voters in the States' be substituted."

79.35

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    Mr. Vice-President, I move, Sir :

     "That in sub-clause (a) of clause (5) of article 67, for the words 'representatives of the people of the territories of the States directly chosen by the voters', the words 'members directly elected by the voters in the States' be substituted."

79.35

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    Mr. Vice-President, I move, Sir :

     "That in sub-clause (a) of clause (5) of article 67, for the words 'representatives of the people of the territories of the States directly chosen by the voters', the words 'members directly elected by the voters in the States' be substituted."

79.36

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      The clause as it appears in the Draft Constitution reads thus :

     "(5) (a) Subject to the provisions of articles 292 and 293 of this Constitution, the House of the People shall consist of not more than five hundred representatives of the people of the territories of the States directly chosen by the voters."

79.36

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      The clause as it appears in the Draft Constitution reads thus :

     "(5) (a) Subject to the provisions of articles 292 and 293 of this Constitution, the House of the People shall consist of not more than five hundred representatives of the people of the territories of the States directly chosen by the voters."

79.36

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      The clause as it appears in the Draft Constitution reads thus :

     "(5) (a) Subject to the provisions of articles 292 and 293 of this Constitution, the House of the People shall consist of not more than five hundred representatives of the people of the territories of the States directly chosen by the voters."

79.37

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      If my amendment is accepted by the House, the clause will read thus:

     "Subject to the provisions of articles 292 and 293 of this Constitution, the House of the People shall consist of not more than five hundred members directly elected by the voters in the States."

79.37

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      If my amendment is accepted by the House, the clause will read thus:

     "Subject to the provisions of articles 292 and 293 of this Constitution, the House of the People shall consist of not more than five hundred members directly elected by the voters in the States."

79.37

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      If my amendment is accepted by the House, the clause will read thus:

     "Subject to the provisions of articles 292 and 293 of this Constitution, the House of the People shall consist of not more than five hundred members directly elected by the voters in the States."

79.38

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     The House will see that my amendment makes for brevity, clarity and precision and further, seeks to eliminate the convolutions of language which mar the construction of the clause as it stands at present. I do hope that Dr. Ambedkar and the House will not have any difficulty in or objection to accepting it. I will only say one word more. If my amendment is accepted by the House, certain consequential changes will follow in sub-clause (2) of clause (5) and in the proviso thereto. In the sub-clause as well as in the proviso, the words "representatives of the States" will have to be altered to 'members' in conformity with the amendment which has been moved to sub-clause (a) of clause (5). I commend this amendment to the acceptance of the House.

79.38

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     The House will see that my amendment makes for brevity, clarity and precision and further, seeks to eliminate the convolutions of language which mar the construction of the clause as it stands at present. I do hope that Dr. Ambedkar and the House will not have any difficulty in or objection to accepting it. I will only say one word more. If my amendment is accepted by the House, certain consequential changes will follow in sub-clause (2) of clause (5) and in the proviso thereto. In the sub-clause as well as in the proviso, the words "representatives of the States" will have to be altered to 'members' in conformity with the amendment which has been moved to sub-clause (a) of clause (5). I commend this amendment to the acceptance of the House.

79.38

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     The House will see that my amendment makes for brevity, clarity and precision and further, seeks to eliminate the convolutions of language which mar the construction of the clause as it stands at present. I do hope that Dr. Ambedkar and the House will not have any difficulty in or objection to accepting it. I will only say one word more. If my amendment is accepted by the House, certain consequential changes will follow in sub-clause (2) of clause (5) and in the proviso thereto. In the sub-clause as well as in the proviso, the words "representatives of the States" will have to be altered to 'members' in conformity with the amendment which has been moved to sub-clause (a) of clause (5). I commend this amendment to the acceptance of the House.

79.39

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    Amendments Nos. 1418, 1419 and 1420 are of similar import. I allow Prof. Ranga to move amendment No. 1419.

(Amendments Nos. 1418 to 1423 were not moved.)

79.39

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    Amendments Nos. 1418, 1419 and 1420 are of similar import. I allow Prof. Ranga to move amendment No. 1419.

(Amendments Nos. 1418 to 1423 were not moved.)

79.39

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    Amendments Nos. 1418, 1419 and 1420 are of similar import. I allow Prof. Ranga to move amendment No. 1419.

(Amendments Nos. 1418 to 1423 were not moved.)

79.40

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   Mr. Vice-President, I beg to move:

     "That the following be added after the words 'the States' in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67:--

            'and Territories directly governed by the Centre'."

79.40

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   Mr. Vice-President, I beg to move:

     "That the following be added after the words 'the States' in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67:--

            'and Territories directly governed by the Centre'."

79.40

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   Mr. Vice-President, I beg to move:

     "That the following be added after the words 'the States' in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67:--

            'and Territories directly governed by the Centre'."

79.40

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   Mr. Vice-President, I beg to move:

     "That the following be added after the words 'the States' in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67:--

            'and Territories directly governed by the Centre'."

79.41

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     Sir, the existing clause provides only for those States which are mentioned in the Schedule attached. The Schedule does not mention considerable territories, with considerable population in them, which are directly administered by the Centre. Lest their claim to representation be overlooked altogether and they be denied representative institutions in themselves, and go without representation at the Centre also. I think it is but proper and necessary specifically to include them in this clause.

79.41

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     Sir, the existing clause provides only for those States which are mentioned in the Schedule attached. The Schedule does not mention considerable territories, with considerable population in them, which are directly administered by the Centre. Lest their claim to representation be overlooked altogether and they be denied representative institutions in themselves, and go without representation at the Centre also. I think it is but proper and necessary specifically to include them in this clause.

79.41

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sir, the existing clause provides only for those States which are mentioned in the Schedule attached. The Schedule does not mention considerable territories, with considerable population in them, which are directly administered by the Centre. Lest their claim to representation be overlooked altogether and they be denied representative institutions in themselves, and go without representation at the Centre also. I think it is but proper and necessary specifically to include them in this clause.

79.41

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sir, the existing clause provides only for those States which are mentioned in the Schedule attached. The Schedule does not mention considerable territories, with considerable population in them, which are directly administered by the Centre. Lest their claim to representation be overlooked altogether and they be denied representative institutions in themselves, and go without representation at the Centre also. I think it is but proper and necessary specifically to include them in this clause.

79.42

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     It has been alleged, and I have heard it said on very high authority, that the people of some of these territories, of a given area now administered directly by the Centre, are so backward, so lacking in education and the country so undeveloped, as not to deserve representative institutions at all. The remark I am referring to was made at the Jaipur sessions of the Congress with special reference to Cutch.

79.42

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     It has been alleged, and I have heard it said on very high authority, that the people of some of these territories, of a given area now administered directly by the Centre, are so backward, so lacking in education and the country so undeveloped, as not to deserve representative institutions at all. The remark I am referring to was made at the Jaipur sessions of the Congress with special reference to Cutch.

79.42

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     It has been alleged, and I have heard it said on very high authority, that the people of some of these territories, of a given area now administered directly by the Centre, are so backward, so lacking in education and the country so undeveloped, as not to deserve representative institutions at all. The remark I am referring to was made at the Jaipur sessions of the Congress with special reference to Cutch.

79.42

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     It has been alleged, and I have heard it said on very high authority, that the people of some of these territories, of a given area now administered directly by the Centre, are so backward, so lacking in education and the country so undeveloped, as not to deserve representative institutions at all. The remark I am referring to was made at the Jaipur sessions of the Congress with special reference to Cutch.

79.43

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     I was, I confess, surprised to hear such a sweeping condemnation being enunciated by such high authorities in respect of a territory such as Cutch, which is being directly administered by the Centre. Sir quite a good proportion of the business enterprise and industrial activity of the city of Bombay has come from the Cutch people settled there. It is true that those Cutch people have more or less become permanent citizens of Bombay, though they retain their connection with the State of Cutch and may, under the changed conditions of today well make substantial contribution to the rapid advancement of the area and its inhabitants today. But that is no reason to calumniate the whole province or State as lacking in education, development, enterprise or understanding of the resources, or the possibilities of the State.     

79.43

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     I was, I confess, surprised to hear such a sweeping condemnation being enunciated by such high authorities in respect of a territory such as Cutch, which is being directly administered by the Centre. Sir quite a good proportion of the business enterprise and industrial activity of the city of Bombay has come from the Cutch people settled there. It is true that those Cutch people have more or less become permanent citizens of Bombay, though they retain their connection with the State of Cutch and may, under the changed conditions of today well make substantial contribution to the rapid advancement of the area and its inhabitants today. But that is no reason to calumniate the whole province or State as lacking in education, development, enterprise or understanding of the resources, or the possibilities of the State.     

79.43

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     I was, I confess, surprised to hear such a sweeping condemnation being enunciated by such high authorities in respect of a territory such as Cutch, which is being directly administered by the Centre. Sir quite a good proportion of the business enterprise and industrial activity of the city of Bombay has come from the Cutch people settled there. It is true that those Cutch people have more or less become permanent citizens of Bombay, though they retain their connection with the State of Cutch and may, under the changed conditions of today well make substantial contribution to the rapid advancement of the area and its inhabitants today. But that is no reason to calumniate the whole province or State as lacking in education, development, enterprise or understanding of the resources, or the possibilities of the State.     

79.43

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     I was, I confess, surprised to hear such a sweeping condemnation being enunciated by such high authorities in respect of a territory such as Cutch, which is being directly administered by the Centre. Sir quite a good proportion of the business enterprise and industrial activity of the city of Bombay has come from the Cutch people settled there. It is true that those Cutch people have more or less become permanent citizens of Bombay, though they retain their connection with the State of Cutch and may, under the changed conditions of today well make substantial contribution to the rapid advancement of the area and its inhabitants today. But that is no reason to calumniate the whole province or State as lacking in education, development, enterprise or understanding of the resources, or the possibilities of the State.     

79.44

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This, Sir, is, in my opinion, very unfair to a whole people who have made their contribution to the country's general awakening and advance. To deny the people there on such grounds, representation either in the State itself, or in the Centre as part of the Union, is highly retrograde say the least.

79.44

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This, Sir, is, in my opinion, very unfair to a whole people who have made their contribution to the country's general awakening and advance. To deny the people there on such grounds, representation either in the State itself, or in the Centre as part of the Union, is highly retrograde say the least.

79.44

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This, Sir, is, in my opinion, very unfair to a whole people who have made their contribution to the country's general awakening and advance. To deny the people there on such grounds, representation either in the State itself, or in the Centre as part of the Union, is highly retrograde say the least.

79.44

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This, Sir, is, in my opinion, very unfair to a whole people who have made their contribution to the country's general awakening and advance. To deny the people there on such grounds, representation either in the State itself, or in the Centre as part of the Union, is highly retrograde say the least.

79.45

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     The possibility therefore, of other similar territories being also ignored and going unrepresented has become so vivid in my mind, that I have felt it necessary to table this amendment and specifically to include them in this clause with the words that I have suggested being added. I commend this to the House.    

79.45

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     The possibility therefore, of other similar territories being also ignored and going unrepresented has become so vivid in my mind, that I have felt it necessary to table this amendment and specifically to include them in this clause with the words that I have suggested being added. I commend this to the House.    

79.45

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     The possibility therefore, of other similar territories being also ignored and going unrepresented has become so vivid in my mind, that I have felt it necessary to table this amendment and specifically to include them in this clause with the words that I have suggested being added. I commend this to the House.    

79.45

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     The possibility therefore, of other similar territories being also ignored and going unrepresented has become so vivid in my mind, that I have felt it necessary to table this amendment and specifically to include them in this clause with the words that I have suggested being added. I commend this to the House.    

79.46

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    The first part of amendment No. 1425 and amendment No. 1426 standing in the name of Mr. Kamath are identical. I propose that amendment No. 1425 may be moved, the first as well as the second part. Mr. Kamath, do you want your amendment No. 1426 to be put to vote?

79.46

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    The first part of amendment No. 1425 and amendment No. 1426 standing in the name of Mr. Kamath are identical. I propose that amendment No. 1425 may be moved, the first as well as the second part. Mr. Kamath, do you want your amendment No. 1426 to be put to vote?

79.46

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    The first part of amendment No. 1425 and amendment No. 1426 standing in the name of Mr. Kamath are identical. I propose that amendment No. 1425 may be moved, the first as well as the second part. Mr. Kamath, do you want your amendment No. 1426 to be put to vote?

79.46

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    The first part of amendment No. 1425 and amendment No. 1426 standing in the name of Mr. Kamath are identical. I propose that amendment No. 1425 may be moved, the first as well as the second part. Mr. Kamath, do you want your amendment No. 1426 to be put to vote?

79.47

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   I see that Dr. Ambedkar has stolen a march over me, and so I do not propose to move my amendment.

79.47

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   I see that Dr. Ambedkar has stolen a march over me, and so I do not propose to move my amendment.

79.47

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   I see that Dr. Ambedkar has stolen a march over me, and so I do not propose to move my amendment.

79.47

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   I see that Dr. Ambedkar has stolen a march over me, and so I do not propose to move my amendment.

79.48

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Dr. Ambedkar.

79.48

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Dr. Ambedkar.

79.48

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Dr. Ambedkar.

79.48

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Dr. Ambedkar.

79.49

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    I am not moving it.

79.49

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    I am not moving it.

79.49

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    I am not moving it.

79.49

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    I am not moving it.

79.50

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Then we come to amendment No. 1427 standing in the name of Prof. K. T. Shah.

79.50

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Then we come to amendment No. 1427 standing in the name of Prof. K. T. Shah.

79.50

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Then we come to amendment No. 1427 standing in the name of Prof. K. T. Shah.

79.50

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Then we come to amendment No. 1427 standing in the name of Prof. K. T. Shah.

79.51

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Amendments Nos. 1428 and 1429 also stand in my name. Can I move all these together?

79.51

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Amendments Nos. 1428 and 1429 also stand in my name. Can I move all these together?

79.51

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Amendments Nos. 1428 and 1429 also stand in my name. Can I move all these together?

79.51

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Amendments Nos. 1428 and 1429 also stand in my name. Can I move all these together?

79.52

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   You can move them one after the other. After moving all the three amendments, you can make one speech covering all of them.

79.52

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   You can move them one after the other. After moving all the three amendments, you can make one speech covering all of them.

79.52

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   You can move them one after the other. After moving all the three amendments, you can make one speech covering all of them.

79.52

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   You can move them one after the other. After moving all the three amendments, you can make one speech covering all of them.

79.53

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Mr. Vice-President, Sir, I move:

     "That in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, the words 'divided, grouped or' be deleted."

     "That in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, after the word 'constituencies', the following be added :--

'so that each State being constituent part of the Union, or Territory governed directly by the Centre is a single constituency by itself if its population is not less than a million; or grouped with such adjoining States or Territories as together have a population of not less than a million."

     "That is sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, after the word 'constituencies' a full-stop be added; the word 'and' following immediately be deleted; and the word 'the' be printed with a capital 'T'."

79.53

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Mr. Vice-President, Sir, I move:

     "That in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, the words 'divided, grouped or' be deleted."

     "That in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, after the word 'constituencies', the following be added :--

'so that each State being constituent part of the Union, or Territory governed directly by the Centre is a single constituency by itself if its population is not less than a million; or grouped with such adjoining States or Territories as together have a population of not less than a million."

     "That is sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, after the word 'constituencies' a full-stop be added; the word 'and' following immediately be deleted; and the word 'the' be printed with a capital 'T'."

79.53

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Mr. Vice-President, Sir, I move:

     "That in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, the words 'divided, grouped or' be deleted."

     "That in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, after the word 'constituencies', the following be added :--

'so that each State being constituent part of the Union, or Territory governed directly by the Centre is a single constituency by itself if its population is not less than a million; or grouped with such adjoining States or Territories as together have a population of not less than a million."

     "That is sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, after the word 'constituencies' a full-stop be added; the word 'and' following immediately be deleted; and the word 'the' be printed with a capital 'T'."

79.53

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    Mr. Vice-President, Sir, I move:

     "That in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, the words 'divided, grouped or' be deleted."

     "That in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, after the word 'constituencies', the following be added :--

'so that each State being constituent part of the Union, or Territory governed directly by the Centre is a single constituency by itself if its population is not less than a million; or grouped with such adjoining States or Territories as together have a population of not less than a million."

     "That is sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, after the word 'constituencies' a full-stop be added; the word 'and' following immediately be deleted; and the word 'the' be printed with a capital 'T'."

79.54

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sir, the purpose of these amendments is consequential upon what I have already moved; that is to say, we should form constituencies in such a manner that each constituency has at least the representative possibility of two seats not less than a million, population, therefore, is the limit which I would suggest should be the unit in the device of Proportional Representation by which representation is to be secured.

79.54

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sir, the purpose of these amendments is consequential upon what I have already moved; that is to say, we should form constituencies in such a manner that each constituency has at least the representative possibility of two seats not less than a million, population, therefore, is the limit which I would suggest should be the unit in the device of Proportional Representation by which representation is to be secured.

79.54

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sir, the purpose of these amendments is consequential upon what I have already moved; that is to say, we should form constituencies in such a manner that each constituency has at least the representative possibility of two seats not less than a million, population, therefore, is the limit which I would suggest should be the unit in the device of Proportional Representation by which representation is to be secured.

79.54

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sir, the purpose of these amendments is consequential upon what I have already moved; that is to say, we should form constituencies in such a manner that each constituency has at least the representative possibility of two seats not less than a million, population, therefore, is the limit which I would suggest should be the unit in the device of Proportional Representation by which representation is to be secured.

79.55

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Proportional Representation, Sir, would not be feasible or even possible for single member constituencies. At any rate it will not yield the same results as are expected by those who believe in the principle. It is but right, therefore, and proper that you should have multi-member constituencies; and the minimum must not be less than two.

79.55

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Proportional Representation, Sir, would not be feasible or even possible for single member constituencies. At any rate it will not yield the same results as are expected by those who believe in the principle. It is but right, therefore, and proper that you should have multi-member constituencies; and the minimum must not be less than two.

79.55

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Proportional Representation, Sir, would not be feasible or even possible for single member constituencies. At any rate it will not yield the same results as are expected by those who believe in the principle. It is but right, therefore, and proper that you should have multi-member constituencies; and the minimum must not be less than two.

79.55

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Proportional Representation, Sir, would not be feasible or even possible for single member constituencies. At any rate it will not yield the same results as are expected by those who believe in the principle. It is but right, therefore, and proper that you should have multi-member constituencies; and the minimum must not be less than two.

79.56

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     It is on that basis, and this understanding of the principle we have already adopted in the Constitution of this very Assembly, that I have suggested a unit of a million population. I have also suggested, in a previous amendment, the minimum population requiring representation to be 500,000. These two together, I think, would provide every constituency with not less than two representatives.

79.56

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     It is on that basis, and this understanding of the principle we have already adopted in the Constitution of this very Assembly, that I have suggested a unit of a million population. I have also suggested, in a previous amendment, the minimum population requiring representation to be 500,000. These two together, I think, would provide every constituency with not less than two representatives.

79.56

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     It is on that basis, and this understanding of the principle we have already adopted in the Constitution of this very Assembly, that I have suggested a unit of a million population. I have also suggested, in a previous amendment, the minimum population requiring representation to be 500,000. These two together, I think, would provide every constituency with not less than two representatives.

79.56

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     It is on that basis, and this understanding of the principle we have already adopted in the Constitution of this very Assembly, that I have suggested a unit of a million population. I have also suggested, in a previous amendment, the minimum population requiring representation to be 500,000. These two together, I think, would provide every constituency with not less than two representatives.

79.57

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Most of the States will be able, each by itself, to provide such constituencies. There will, of course, be some States which will be much larger; and as such the working of Proportional Representation would in them fit in very successfully. All States as well as territories governed from the Centre would by this means receive their full measure of representation. It would enrich the representative character of the Union Legislature; it would provide expression for all shades of opinion, it would help to place before the Union Legislature all aspects of the problems that come before it for legislation or otherwise for disposal.

79.57

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Most of the States will be able, each by itself, to provide such constituencies. There will, of course, be some States which will be much larger; and as such the working of Proportional Representation would in them fit in very successfully. All States as well as territories governed from the Centre would by this means receive their full measure of representation. It would enrich the representative character of the Union Legislature; it would provide expression for all shades of opinion, it would help to place before the Union Legislature all aspects of the problems that come before it for legislation or otherwise for disposal.

79.57

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Most of the States will be able, each by itself, to provide such constituencies. There will, of course, be some States which will be much larger; and as such the working of Proportional Representation would in them fit in very successfully. All States as well as territories governed from the Centre would by this means receive their full measure of representation. It would enrich the representative character of the Union Legislature; it would provide expression for all shades of opinion, it would help to place before the Union Legislature all aspects of the problems that come before it for legislation or otherwise for disposal.

79.57

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Most of the States will be able, each by itself, to provide such constituencies. There will, of course, be some States which will be much larger; and as such the working of Proportional Representation would in them fit in very successfully. All States as well as territories governed from the Centre would by this means receive their full measure of representation. It would enrich the representative character of the Union Legislature; it would provide expression for all shades of opinion, it would help to place before the Union Legislature all aspects of the problems that come before it for legislation or otherwise for disposal.

79.58

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     As I have stated already, I think it is but right and proper that we should have constituencies arranged or grouped in such a manner, formed in such units, as would secure the fullest possible representation on a Proportional Representation basis for every constituent part of the Union which may also enable every shade of political opinion to be represented. Sir, I commend this to the House.

(Amendment No. 1430 was not moved.)

79.58

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     As I have stated already, I think it is but right and proper that we should have constituencies arranged or grouped in such a manner, formed in such units, as would secure the fullest possible representation on a Proportional Representation basis for every constituent part of the Union which may also enable every shade of political opinion to be represented. Sir, I commend this to the House.

(Amendment No. 1430 was not moved.)

79.58

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     As I have stated already, I think it is but right and proper that we should have constituencies arranged or grouped in such a manner, formed in such units, as would secure the fullest possible representation on a Proportional Representation basis for every constituent part of the Union which may also enable every shade of political opinion to be represented. Sir, I commend this to the House.

(Amendment No. 1430 was not moved.)

79.58

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     As I have stated already, I think it is but right and proper that we should have constituencies arranged or grouped in such a manner, formed in such units, as would secure the fullest possible representation on a Proportional Representation basis for every constituent part of the Union which may also enable every shade of political opinion to be represented. Sir, I commend this to the House.

(Amendment No. 1430 was not moved.)

79.59

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    May I make a submission, Mr. Vice-President? I thought that Dr. Ambedkar was moving his amendment No. 1425 and so I said that my amendment would not be moved. It appears that Dr. Ambedkar is not moving his amendment. His amendment consists of two parts and he has not separated the two. Therefore, will you kindly permit me to move my amendment No. 1426?

79.59

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    May I make a submission, Mr. Vice-President? I thought that Dr. Ambedkar was moving his amendment No. 1425 and so I said that my amendment would not be moved. It appears that Dr. Ambedkar is not moving his amendment. His amendment consists of two parts and he has not separated the two. Therefore, will you kindly permit me to move my amendment No. 1426?

79.59

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    May I make a submission, Mr. Vice-President? I thought that Dr. Ambedkar was moving his amendment No. 1425 and so I said that my amendment would not be moved. It appears that Dr. Ambedkar is not moving his amendment. His amendment consists of two parts and he has not separated the two. Therefore, will you kindly permit me to move my amendment No. 1426?

79.59

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    May I make a submission, Mr. Vice-President? I thought that Dr. Ambedkar was moving his amendment No. 1425 and so I said that my amendment would not be moved. It appears that Dr. Ambedkar is not moving his amendment. His amendment consists of two parts and he has not separated the two. Therefore, will you kindly permit me to move my amendment No. 1426?

79.60

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    All right.

79.60

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    All right.

79.60

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    All right.

79.60

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    All right.

79.61

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Mr. Vice-President, I move Sir:

     "That in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, the words 'of India' be deleted."

79.61

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Mr. Vice-President, I move Sir:

     "That in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, the words 'of India' be deleted."

79.61

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Mr. Vice-President, I move Sir:

     "That in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, the words 'of India' be deleted."

79.61

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Mr. Vice-President, I move Sir:

     "That in sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67, the words 'of India' be deleted."

79.62

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sub-clause (b) of clause (5) as it appears in the draft constitution reads as follows :--

     "For the purpose of sub-clause (a), the States of India shall be divided, etc."

79.62

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sub-clause (b) of clause (5) as it appears in the draft constitution reads as follows :--

     "For the purpose of sub-clause (a), the States of India shall be divided, etc."

79.62

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sub-clause (b) of clause (5) as it appears in the draft constitution reads as follows :--

     "For the purpose of sub-clause (a), the States of India shall be divided, etc."

79.62

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sub-clause (b) of clause (5) as it appears in the draft constitution reads as follows :--

     "For the purpose of sub-clause (a), the States of India shall be divided, etc."

79.63

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Now, obviously the words 'of India' are redundant and superfluous, and in my judgment they should be deleted because the States in the Draft Constitution always mean the States of India. Therefore, Sir, I move that the words 'of India' should be deleted in this sub-clause, and if this is accepted, the sub-clause will read as follows :--

     "For the purpose of sub-clause (a), the States shall be divided, etc."

79.63

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Now, obviously the words 'of India' are redundant and superfluous, and in my judgment they should be deleted because the States in the Draft Constitution always mean the States of India. Therefore, Sir, I move that the words 'of India' should be deleted in this sub-clause, and if this is accepted, the sub-clause will read as follows :--

     "For the purpose of sub-clause (a), the States shall be divided, etc."

79.63

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Now, obviously the words 'of India' are redundant and superfluous, and in my judgment they should be deleted because the States in the Draft Constitution always mean the States of India. Therefore, Sir, I move that the words 'of India' should be deleted in this sub-clause, and if this is accepted, the sub-clause will read as follows :--

     "For the purpose of sub-clause (a), the States shall be divided, etc."

79.63

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Now, obviously the words 'of India' are redundant and superfluous, and in my judgment they should be deleted because the States in the Draft Constitution always mean the States of India. Therefore, Sir, I move that the words 'of India' should be deleted in this sub-clause, and if this is accepted, the sub-clause will read as follows :--

     "For the purpose of sub-clause (a), the States shall be divided, etc."

79.64

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This is quite clear. There is no need for me to expatiate upon this point. I commend his amendment to the House for its acceptance.

79.64

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This is quite clear. There is no need for me to expatiate upon this point. I commend his amendment to the House for its acceptance.

79.64

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This is quite clear. There is no need for me to expatiate upon this point. I commend his amendment to the House for its acceptance.

79.64

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This is quite clear. There is no need for me to expatiate upon this point. I commend his amendment to the House for its acceptance.

79.65

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Mr. Vice-President, Sir, I move:

     "That the proviso to sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67 be deleted."

79.65

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Mr. Vice-President, Sir, I move:

     "That the proviso to sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67 be deleted."

79.65

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Mr. Vice-President, Sir, I move:

     "That the proviso to sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67 be deleted."

79.65

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Mr. Vice-President, Sir, I move:

     "That the proviso to sub-clause (b) of clause (5) of article 67 be deleted."

79.66

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This, is consequential, Sir, from the previous amendments that I have moved. In as much as I do not desire that a maximum figure should be fixed for representatives in the House of the People, it follows that such maximum or proportion being fixed as between the two Chambers would also be out of place. If my previous amendments are accepted, then this would follow as a matter of course. I, therefore, do not think it necessary to take any further time of the House. I commend the amendment for the acceptance of the House.

79.66

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This, is consequential, Sir, from the previous amendments that I have moved. In as much as I do not desire that a maximum figure should be fixed for representatives in the House of the People, it follows that such maximum or proportion being fixed as between the two Chambers would also be out of place. If my previous amendments are accepted, then this would follow as a matter of course. I, therefore, do not think it necessary to take any further time of the House. I commend the amendment for the acceptance of the House.

79.66

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This, is consequential, Sir, from the previous amendments that I have moved. In as much as I do not desire that a maximum figure should be fixed for representatives in the House of the People, it follows that such maximum or proportion being fixed as between the two Chambers would also be out of place. If my previous amendments are accepted, then this would follow as a matter of course. I, therefore, do not think it necessary to take any further time of the House. I commend the amendment for the acceptance of the House.

79.66

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This, is consequential, Sir, from the previous amendments that I have moved. In as much as I do not desire that a maximum figure should be fixed for representatives in the House of the People, it follows that such maximum or proportion being fixed as between the two Chambers would also be out of place. If my previous amendments are accepted, then this would follow as a matter of course. I, therefore, do not think it necessary to take any further time of the House. I commend the amendment for the acceptance of the House.

79.67

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Amendment No. 1432 is verbal and is therefore disallowed.

79.67

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Amendment No. 1432 is verbal and is therefore disallowed.

79.67

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Amendment No. 1432 is verbal and is therefore disallowed.

79.67

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Amendment No. 1432 is verbal and is therefore disallowed.

79.68

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Amendment No. 1433 both alternatives and amendment No. 1437 are of similar import. Amendment No. 1437 may be moved. It stands in the name of Prof. Shibban Lal Saksena.

(The amendments were not moved.)

79.68

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Amendment No. 1433 both alternatives and amendment No. 1437 are of similar import. Amendment No. 1437 may be moved. It stands in the name of Prof. Shibban Lal Saksena.

(The amendments were not moved.)

79.68

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Amendment No. 1433 both alternatives and amendment No. 1437 are of similar import. Amendment No. 1437 may be moved. It stands in the name of Prof. Shibban Lal Saksena.

(The amendments were not moved.)

79.68

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Amendment No. 1433 both alternatives and amendment No. 1437 are of similar import. Amendment No. 1437 may be moved. It stands in the name of Prof. Shibban Lal Saksena.

(The amendments were not moved.)

79.69

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sir, with your permission and the permission of the House I wish to move amendment No. 1434 in a slightly altered form. There will be some verbal changes in accordance with a similar amendment which has already been accepted by the House.

79.69

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sir, with your permission and the permission of the House I wish to move amendment No. 1434 in a slightly altered form. There will be some verbal changes in accordance with a similar amendment which has already been accepted by the House.

79.69

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sir, with your permission and the permission of the House I wish to move amendment No. 1434 in a slightly altered form. There will be some verbal changes in accordance with a similar amendment which has already been accepted by the House.

79.69

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Sir, with your permission and the permission of the House I wish to move amendment No. 1434 in a slightly altered form. There will be some verbal changes in accordance with a similar amendment which has already been accepted by the House.

79.70

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     I beg to move:

     "That in sub-clause (c) of clause (5) of article 67, for the words 'last preceding census', the words 'last preceding census of which the relevant figures have been published' be substituted."

79.70

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     I beg to move:

     "That in sub-clause (c) of clause (5) of article 67, for the words 'last preceding census', the words 'last preceding census of which the relevant figures have been published' be substituted."

79.70

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     I beg to move:

     "That in sub-clause (c) of clause (5) of article 67, for the words 'last preceding census', the words 'last preceding census of which the relevant figures have been published' be substituted."

79.70

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     I beg to move:

     "That in sub-clause (c) of clause (5) of article 67, for the words 'last preceding census', the words 'last preceding census of which the relevant figures have been published' be substituted."

79.71

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This is the form in which another similar amendment was found to be acceptable to the honourable Member, Dr. Ambedkar. This matter has already been discussed in the House and the principle has already been accepted in another context, namely, that if we have to depend upon a census, it must be a census of which the figures are available. We cannot depend upon a census for which figures are not yet available. If we are to hold an election, almost immediately after a census is held, the figures will not be available. It takes about a year to make the figures available. We have to do a lot of things depending upon census figures before an election. In these circumstances one has to depend upon the previous census of which figures are available. This matter was well discussed in the House and the principle was accepted and this amendment is practically consequential upon the acceptance of that motion.

79.71

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This is the form in which another similar amendment was found to be acceptable to the honourable Member, Dr. Ambedkar. This matter has already been discussed in the House and the principle has already been accepted in another context, namely, that if we have to depend upon a census, it must be a census of which the figures are available. We cannot depend upon a census for which figures are not yet available. If we are to hold an election, almost immediately after a census is held, the figures will not be available. It takes about a year to make the figures available. We have to do a lot of things depending upon census figures before an election. In these circumstances one has to depend upon the previous census of which figures are available. This matter was well discussed in the House and the principle was accepted and this amendment is practically consequential upon the acceptance of that motion.

79.71

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This is the form in which another similar amendment was found to be acceptable to the honourable Member, Dr. Ambedkar. This matter has already been discussed in the House and the principle has already been accepted in another context, namely, that if we have to depend upon a census, it must be a census of which the figures are available. We cannot depend upon a census for which figures are not yet available. If we are to hold an election, almost immediately after a census is held, the figures will not be available. It takes about a year to make the figures available. We have to do a lot of things depending upon census figures before an election. In these circumstances one has to depend upon the previous census of which figures are available. This matter was well discussed in the House and the principle was accepted and this amendment is practically consequential upon the acceptance of that motion.

79.71

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This is the form in which another similar amendment was found to be acceptable to the honourable Member, Dr. Ambedkar. This matter has already been discussed in the House and the principle has already been accepted in another context, namely, that if we have to depend upon a census, it must be a census of which the figures are available. We cannot depend upon a census for which figures are not yet available. If we are to hold an election, almost immediately after a census is held, the figures will not be available. It takes about a year to make the figures available. We have to do a lot of things depending upon census figures before an election. In these circumstances one has to depend upon the previous census of which figures are available. This matter was well discussed in the House and the principle was accepted and this amendment is practically consequential upon the acceptance of that motion.

79.72

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Sir, I beg to move

     "That with reference to amendment No. 1434 of the List of Amendments, in sub-clause (5) of article 67, for the words 'members to be elected at any time for', the words 'representatives allotted to' be substituted."

79.72

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Sir, I beg to move

     "That with reference to amendment No. 1434 of the List of Amendments, in sub-clause (5) of article 67, for the words 'members to be elected at any time for', the words 'representatives allotted to' be substituted."

79.72

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Sir, I beg to move

     "That with reference to amendment No. 1434 of the List of Amendments, in sub-clause (5) of article 67, for the words 'members to be elected at any time for', the words 'representatives allotted to' be substituted."

79.72

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Sir, I beg to move

     "That with reference to amendment No. 1434 of the List of Amendments, in sub-clause (5) of article 67, for the words 'members to be elected at any time for', the words 'representatives allotted to' be substituted."

79.73

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Clause (c) reads as follows:

     "The ratio between the number of Members to be elected at any time for each territorial constituency and the population of that constituency as ascertained at the last preceding census shall, so far as practicable, be the same throughout India."

79.73

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Clause (c) reads as follows:

     "The ratio between the number of Members to be elected at any time for each territorial constituency and the population of that constituency as ascertained at the last preceding census shall, so far as practicable, be the same throughout India."

79.73

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Clause (c) reads as follows:

     "The ratio between the number of Members to be elected at any time for each territorial constituency and the population of that constituency as ascertained at the last preceding census shall, so far as practicable, be the same throughout India."

79.73

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Clause (c) reads as follows:

     "The ratio between the number of Members to be elected at any time for each territorial constituency and the population of that constituency as ascertained at the last preceding census shall, so far as practicable, be the same throughout India."

79.74

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     As per clause (b), there shall not be less than one representative for every 750,000 of the population and not more than one representative for every 500,000 of the population. That latitude being given, it is just possible that they may not be uniformity of representation throughout India. The object of this clause is to secure a uniform scale of representation throughout India, whatever it may be, and in order to secure this uniformity this clause is introduced. But the wording "members to be elected at any time for each territorial constituency" does not bring out the sense fully and hence my amendment that for the words "members to be elected at any time for", the words "representatives allotted to" be substituted. If my amendment is accepted the clause would read:

    "The ratio between the number of representatives allotted to each territorial constituency and the population of that constituency as ascertained at the last preceding census shall, so far as practicable, be the same throughout India."

79.74

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     As per clause (b), there shall not be less than one representative for every 750,000 of the population and not more than one representative for every 500,000 of the population. That latitude being given, it is just possible that they may not be uniformity of representation throughout India. The object of this clause is to secure a uniform scale of representation throughout India, whatever it may be, and in order to secure this uniformity this clause is introduced. But the wording "members to be elected at any time for each territorial constituency" does not bring out the sense fully and hence my amendment that for the words "members to be elected at any time for", the words "representatives allotted to" be substituted. If my amendment is accepted the clause would read:

    "The ratio between the number of representatives allotted to each territorial constituency and the population of that constituency as ascertained at the last preceding census shall, so far as practicable, be the same throughout India."

79.74

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     As per clause (b), there shall not be less than one representative for every 750,000 of the population and not more than one representative for every 500,000 of the population. That latitude being given, it is just possible that they may not be uniformity of representation throughout India. The object of this clause is to secure a uniform scale of representation throughout India, whatever it may be, and in order to secure this uniformity this clause is introduced. But the wording "members to be elected at any time for each territorial constituency" does not bring out the sense fully and hence my amendment that for the words "members to be elected at any time for", the words "representatives allotted to" be substituted. If my amendment is accepted the clause would read:

    "The ratio between the number of representatives allotted to each territorial constituency and the population of that constituency as ascertained at the last preceding census shall, so far as practicable, be the same throughout India."

79.74

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     As per clause (b), there shall not be less than one representative for every 750,000 of the population and not more than one representative for every 500,000 of the population. That latitude being given, it is just possible that they may not be uniformity of representation throughout India. The object of this clause is to secure a uniform scale of representation throughout India, whatever it may be, and in order to secure this uniformity this clause is introduced. But the wording "members to be elected at any time for each territorial constituency" does not bring out the sense fully and hence my amendment that for the words "members to be elected at any time for", the words "representatives allotted to" be substituted. If my amendment is accepted the clause would read:

    "The ratio between the number of representatives allotted to each territorial constituency and the population of that constituency as ascertained at the last preceding census shall, so far as practicable, be the same throughout India."

79.75

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     It is in order to bring out the sense more clearly that this amendment is moved.

(Amendment Nos. 1435 and 1436 were not moved.)

79.75

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     It is in order to bring out the sense more clearly that this amendment is moved.

(Amendment Nos. 1435 and 1436 were not moved.)

79.75

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     It is in order to bring out the sense more clearly that this amendment is moved.

(Amendment Nos. 1435 and 1436 were not moved.)

79.75

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     It is in order to bring out the sense more clearly that this amendment is moved.

(Amendment Nos. 1435 and 1436 were not moved.)

79.76

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    No. 1438 is disallowed as being formal.

(Amendments Nos. 1439, 1440, 1441 and 1442 were not moved.)

79.76

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    No. 1438 is disallowed as being formal.

(Amendments Nos. 1439, 1440, 1441 and 1442 were not moved.)

79.76

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    No. 1438 is disallowed as being formal.

(Amendments Nos. 1439, 1440, 1441 and 1442 were not moved.)

79.76

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

    No. 1438 is disallowed as being formal.

(Amendments Nos. 1439, 1440, 1441 and 1442 were not moved.)

79.77

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Amendment No. 1443 is disallowed as being verbal.

(Amendments Nos. 1444 and 1445 were not moved.)

79.77

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Amendment No. 1443 is disallowed as being verbal.

(Amendments Nos. 1444 and 1445 were not moved.)

79.77

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Amendment No. 1443 is disallowed as being verbal.

(Amendments Nos. 1444 and 1445 were not moved.)

79.77

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     Amendment No. 1443 is disallowed as being verbal.

(Amendments Nos. 1444 and 1445 were not moved.)

79.78

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

  Sir, I beg to move:

     "That clause (7) of Article 67 be omitted."

79.78

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

  Sir, I beg to move:

     "That clause (7) of Article 67 be omitted."

79.78

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

  Sir, I beg to move:

     "That clause (7) of Article 67 be omitted."

79.78

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

  Sir, I beg to move:

     "That clause (7) of Article 67 be omitted."

79.79

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This clause deals with territories other than States. The objection to this clause is that it gives the right to Parliament to determine the representation of areas other than the States. With regard to these territories, I submit, as I submitted in connection with another similar amendment, that if any area is governed by any authority, that authority should decide its representation. That principle should be fixed in the Constitution. It should be left to an appropriate authority in the area to whom representation is given. There would be some authority functioning in those areas and it is for that authority to fix their own representation and not for Parliament. It may be a referendum or the like. In fact, it deprives certain areas of the right of self-determination.

79.79

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This clause deals with territories other than States. The objection to this clause is that it gives the right to Parliament to determine the representation of areas other than the States. With regard to these territories, I submit, as I submitted in connection with another similar amendment, that if any area is governed by any authority, that authority should decide its representation. That principle should be fixed in the Constitution. It should be left to an appropriate authority in the area to whom representation is given. There would be some authority functioning in those areas and it is for that authority to fix their own representation and not for Parliament. It may be a referendum or the like. In fact, it deprives certain areas of the right of self-determination.

79.79

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This clause deals with territories other than States. The objection to this clause is that it gives the right to Parliament to determine the representation of areas other than the States. With regard to these territories, I submit, as I submitted in connection with another similar amendment, that if any area is governed by any authority, that authority should decide its representation. That principle should be fixed in the Constitution. It should be left to an appropriate authority in the area to whom representation is given. There would be some authority functioning in those areas and it is for that authority to fix their own representation and not for Parliament. It may be a referendum or the like. In fact, it deprives certain areas of the right of self-determination.

79.79

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

     This clause deals with territories other than States. The objection to this clause is that it gives the right to Parliament to determine the representation of areas other than the States. With regard to these territories, I submit, as I submitted in connection with another similar amendment, that if any area is governed by any authority, that authority should decide its representation. That principle should be fixed in the Constitution. It should be left to an appropriate authority in the area to whom representation is given. There would be some authority functioning in those areas and it is for that authority to fix their own representation and not for Parliament. It may be a referendum or the like. In fact, it deprives certain areas of the right of self-determination.

79.80

Volume 7 > Document Number > Paragraph Number

   Amendment No. 1447 Prof. K. T. Shah.